Challenging the Menopause Narrative in South Africa

Xoli Madlala is the founder of Redefining Menopause Africa, which seeks to amplify the African experience of menopause, the author of The Perimenopausal Globetrotter, a TEDx speaker and a policy advisor who is working on multiple levels from governance to grassroots to change the menopause narrative in South Africa. I'm so pleased to have her voice and experience in these conversations. Learn more about:

  • Premature menopause and how disorienting that can be

  • Privilege in access to nutrition, resources and healthcare

  • Creating cultural change for the next generation

  • An invitation to consider how menopause was experienced (or not) in traditional cultures

  • Symptoms and indicators that we don’t always identify as signs of perimenopause

Prefer to listen? Get the podcast here: Redefining Menopause in South Africa

Many of the conversations that we're having and historical research around perimenopause and menopause comes from a Western medicalised white, largely English speaking background, which leaves many voices unheard. And in this conversation, we are looking at menopause and perimenopause in a South African context. Our speaker, Xoli Madlala is the founder of Redefining Menopause Africa, which seeks to amplify the African experience of menopause and to create change to be more menopause inclusive in a variety of spaces and conversations. Xoli is also the author of The Perimenopausal Globetrotter. She's a TEDx speaker and a policy advisor who is working on levels of corporate wellness work in churches and with individuals to change the menopause narrative in South Africa. So I'm so pleased to have her voice and experience in these conversations and to be able to share this as a resource to you. Let's dive in.

So I'm super excited to be here having a conversation with you. Do you want to give us a little introduction of who you are, where you are, and the work that you do with women?

Okay, awesome. My name is Xoli, Xoli Madlala. I'm based in Johannesburg, originally from KZN. And I always say that I'm a lover, lover of people, family, friends, society in general. I love adventure. I love food. I love reading. I love, I love, love. 

And in the core of it all, I love women. And I think that my love of women is what led me to get into the space that I am finding myself getting deeper and deeper and deeper into. And obviously my love of women have always been there. But when I then went into premature menopause in my thirties, looked around to the women that I've always loved and I had questions, I found that they didn't have answers for me.

And that's when then I found myself then having to start redefining menopause Africa, a space where we are seeing that here menopause conversations are being heard, but we want to make them African. And that's when I ended up also writing my book, The Perimenopausal Globetrotter, which is partially my journey, but also it's got academia because I wanted people to walk away feeling like informed, not just having read about my story. And the book also speaks to men, like chapter 25 is solely focused on men because they coexist with us. So they need to be as clued up as possible. And then it's got random musings, also things that I just wonder about in passing, because I mean, this book is over 400 pages long. So the things that I could not delve into, things like menopause and HIV, do HIV positive women experience menopause the same way as HIV negative women. 

Women behind bars, who is taking care of them, who's advocating for them, how are they navigating this stressful period. I mean, if we struggle and we're outside of prison, how much more when they are deprived of certain liberties that we have access to. And then it looks at menopause through the cultural lens also.

And that is mostly who I am right now. And I've got a clothing line, indigenously, and it was partially born, by the late nights, the insomnia, the night sweats, finding myself idling in the middle of the night. Like, what am going to do? And instead of getting on social media, just having random conversations, then I had to turn that to something that is worthwhile. So yeah, that is that.

So many things in that and in the work that you do and the thinking that you are following around how do we experience menopause, how might that be different with an African lens, how might that be different depending on the context that we find ourselves in, what is it like for men to be witnessing and living alongside of us. And you've surfaced some of the challenges and the night sweats and the kind of waking and insomnia. When you think about what women have been sharing with you what are some of the commonalities that you're finding amongst your people that are sharing stories with you?

The biggest thing, this was in 2016 when I ventured into the space. So at that time it was really crickets when it comes to this subject. Unlike now, at least the past two years, I think the world is making great strides in making sure that this conversation is had. And also here in South Africa, I mean, I've met quite a number of incredible women like yourself that are lending their voices to make sure that we are not left behind.

But in 2016, it was really a quiet space. And the quiet space also, it meant that there was a lack of information and lack of knowledge. And you look at 2025, there still is a bit of lack of knowledge, lack of information. And when menopause is spoken about, normally also there's a disconnect because it's medicalised so much. Doctors make it so difficult for women to be able to fully understand what is happening.

Hence, I then decided that when I ventured into the space, I'm going to be the bridge between medical and the normal woman out there by making this phase of life as simple to grasp as possible. As it is, we do not have some of the names in our languages. South Africa's got 12 official languages now, if we include sign language. And that sparked me to even say that how are we then even gonna have as much of a voice and information when we do not have the right vocabulary for it? When I was doing research for menopause through the cultural lens, I was speaking to the ladies from the rural areas and to explain the information that I was looking for was such a mission because they did not even understand what menopause is. So I had to explain the phases of women's reproductive cycles and stages in life then they could kind of understand what I was talking about, but still there was a lack of information. 

So information, information is widely lacking and information that also I think encompasses the diversity of South Africa is still widely lacking. The shame and the embarrassment that is still surrounding this phase of life. Because I mean, even with my own personal experience when I started speaking about it, even my mom was a bit uncomfortable at first. It comes from a generation that really did not speak about this. But because I knew what had almost become my mission was I had to keep pushing up until she started getting around it. I'll speak to my colleagues at work because I mean, as you know, that menopause just affects every aspect of your life. It's not just about when you're at home. It does not have the timing. It affects how we show up at work.

So I started speaking to colleagues that I could tell that they were at that age. I had seen them now that I knew what I was going through. I had seen them sometimes taking off their scarves, getting flustered. So when I'll try to speak to them, how have you been navigating it when you have to be at work? I could see the curtain going down, the glazed over look, the discomfort. And that propelled me somewhat to say that we need to remove the shame. We need to remove the stigma.

The natural age is obviously of menopause from what, 45 to 55? 51 being the most common age. So having gone into it in my thirties also, there was that identity crisis that came with it. Which spectrum do I belong to? Because my friends are nowhere near it. When I'm trying to speak to them, they don't get what I'm talking about. You try to speak to the older women, they're looking at you on some like, why do I not speak about older women's phase of life?

So I was struggling with two worlds and society also, I they think menopause means that your value and your worth is over as a woman. And here I am in my thirties, still single and hoping to meet that ideal partner. And fortunately, I didn't want to have children. So I did not have to add that also in my basket to say that I was still waiting to have children, but I can only imagine how that feels for a woman in their thirties that also still wants to have children. So when society deems menopause, as in that your value is over, then it can dim your light. It can really make you feel like what's the whole point of then being here. So there was that. The lack of support in general also. Most women go through it in silence, because they feel like nobody really owns and talks about it openly. And relatability plays a huge role. Sometimes you just want somebody that gets it.

You know, there's something that is always fascinating when you see a woman getting a hot flush and you know what's going on and you just look at them and you wink or you wave or you just like take out your own friend. Like I've learned to always have friends everywhere. So that is why I can pull one close by. But that relatability that does not need words because most women think that they're their mind because their minds, because I mean, the symptoms are so many. So sometimes they think that what they're experiencing is only relative to them. Things like, this is something that we hardly speak about, things like your weak and brittle nails, digestive issues, because we normally hear of what? The hot flashes, the weight gain, the brain fog, and loss of libido and all of that. So most women that may experience anything else, that is not what they've been taught, then they think, my God. So we still need more support so that women can fully embrace the space of life.

And then access to various ways of navigating it, whether it's through medication, holistic approach and all of that. Most of it costs money. And most women feel like financially that menopause is really setting them back. As we said earlier, the ages of menopause, find that women are already handling so much responsibility when this phase of life comes.

And now we living in society where also menopause and capitalism is on steroids. So you're seeing all this product and then women keep on up by all of these things. So financially it is also causing a dent and our Department of Health also, they are not really seen anywhere. When we know that the majority of women are already menopausal in our country, whether peri or post-menopausal, but they are not fulfilling their role.

So there's a disconnect where they that have got a bigger reach that can get to far more grassroots, different corners, but they are nowhere to be seen. So those are just some of the things that I've seen. And we spoke about the effects of it in relationships. Men are not clued up. So we find couples really struggling during this phase of life, which is unfair also on relationships. So we need to do better.

And then you look at corporate SA. DEI and B has been the buzzword for quite a number of years. You look at wellness departments, you look at HR. But when it comes to those phase of life that every woman is going to go through, not much is being done. With emails, you get blue ticked, no responses or you just get shunted from different departments because they don't know where menopause is supposed to fall. So those are some of the challenges.

So many challenges both on an individual and community and organisational and a legislative and kind of nationwide situation. When you think about growing up and having the experience of seeing women around you or kind of different phases of life what was the narrative that was passed on to you around menopause or if it wasn't called that the phase of life where women are maybe moving into from the mother figure into maybe an older matriarchal figure? Was there a narrative around that?

You know what, even in the book, think it is one of the first few chapters that at most whenever we speak about it now that we're having those conversations, one common word that would hear was high high, meaning high blood pressure, when the ladies will be sweating and only after as you said, okay, they were having hot flashes, but there was no right care for it. So they just put it to high high and there was that and I've been doing Instagram lives, I think for the past two years, I only stopped at beginning of the year. And my icebreaker question was always, what did you know about menopause growing up? Almost every guest that I had said nothing. They knew nothing. And I'm talking about whether it's people that are in the medical field. I'm talking about not just South African women, but like for example, Vonayi Nyamazana who is doing amazing work in the UK. She also said that she grew up knowing nothing. I've spoken to a South African lady now she's based in the US also. And she was saying that nobody and that's why most women will say that they feel like there's that anger towards the women before us to say that why couldn't they normalise this conversation? 

Because as black Africans, so many of the other life stages, whether it's puberty, pregnancy, childbirth, it's so communal. Women used to rally around each other. But whenever you do research, you read up, there is nothing about this phase of life. 

When I was doing research, I speak to some of our people that are really trusted as custodians of traditional ways of being and most of them also had no information. They actually said that you are challenging us to go look for information. And I went further to say that was this information due to the fact that we are big on storytelling rather than the documenting. So most of the information then when they left, when they passed on, they passed on with it because there's absolutely nothing and we obviously need to correct it now.

Interesting to think about whether the lack of ritual or stories about this phase of life is because there was none or because it wasn't documented by the people hearing it or thinking about it or maybe seen or recognised for what it was. That's an interesting kind of investigative lens to put on it.

And another thing that I want to add, because whenever it comes to this, I say also, did they maybe, the generations much earlier, navigated a bit better because of lifestyle back then? Because lifestyle has changed so much. 

They spent so much time in the sunlight. They spent so much time working, tilling the land, going to fetch water, all of those things, which was like fitness indirectly. We look at it like gym membership. We look at it these days or popping supplements, vitamin D, all of this, but they were out there getting all of these things that we are deprived of. They slept better because I mean they were not having all these gadgets and all of those things. So come night after storytelling and all of whatever nighttime routines, then they'll go to sleep and we have to invest in blacking out curtains so that you get that proper darkness in your bedroom. In the olden days, they had none of those disturbances. So they got good quality sleep. 

And they had children also much, much earlier. I've read quite a number of research also that speaks into when it comes to premature menopause that women that have not given birth, fallen pregnant and giving birth, they go into premature menopause more than women that have given birth. So all of those little things, they ate more organic food also versus us. So maybe their menopause transition was not as hectic. They were not exposed to these toxins, the chemicals that we're exposed to, all these endocrine disrupting chemicals. So if it's not a big of an issue, then they're not really speaking much about it.

Also really interesting thinking, I know that in the research that I've been doing, and I can't remember where the study was referenced, but it was about, I think, Amazonian Indians and their experience of menopause and actually not having the same kind of “symptoms” that maybe is more common now because of lifestyle, because of how they were living, how they were moving their bodies. And so it's also interesting to think from an indigenous point of view and culture and storytelling actually is it not there because it wasn't so much of a toll or a challenge for us and have we actually, has it got “worse” as we have developed lifestyles alongside it that maybe aren't supporting our health?

Yeah, so true. The Blue Zone people, they are faring so much better. And that is why I think most of the time things like even adopting a Mediterranean diet, because I mean, most of them, that's what they consume is one of the recommendations. Yet again, it goes back to what I say that we've been done such a great disservice growing up, because normally we eat for enjoyment - we were not taught to eat for nourishment.

So it is difficult when you get to this age to unlearn what you've always done because fast food is easily accessible these days. You can drive on the streets, you'll have so many options, but if you want to eat healthier, you're struggling. Then you end up just consuming whatever that you can find at your disposal. 

So we need to be intentional about so much when it comes to changing our lifestyles. And it's not just for us also that are already there. I'm very big on menopause preparation. I always say that the generations coming after us or after me, they need to fare better than me. And that is why the work that we are doing is important that we keep emphasising the importance.of holistic living, of taking care of yourself, of understanding that anything that you're consuming has got an effect. It might not show now, but it will show one way or another at some point.

Menopause preparation for the generations to come. I love that. It goes in line with what you were saying about normalising conversations, right? Normalising the stage, normalising the transition and being public in that, which also speaks to removing the shame or the stigma about being an older woman in an older woman's body. 

You talked about medicalising and I find this experience of being in the 30s, 40s and 50s and separating out kind of midlife and perimenopause and menopause and the biology thereof and then also the emotional and mental changes that come along with this whole phase such an interesting one. What we see largely being spoken about is the medicine and then as you say, the kind of the capitalist curse, rather than the shift and change in how we live our lives. 

And then we also come to this challenge around access because when I think about my peers in a kind of white middle-class environment, they often have a family doctor, a gynae that they've been going to for years, somebody who can recommend HRT to them or not, or talk them through it. I don't see that same level of care or access being available for every single South African. When you talk to the communities that you've been speaking with and working in or rural access, what is there as resource and support that you've seen?

It is so heartbreaking still to see the lack of access because as I say, and I think we've spoken about it, that I mean, the approach is a multi-pronged, it's multidisciplinary. And yes, the holistic approach is there, but even with the holistic approach, I mean, we're talking nutrition first. So much of the foods that we recommend, some people always go like, it's in a list of luxury for me. You're telling me that there's phytoestrogens that I can get from food. 

No, that is just too much for me. You find that these days we spoke about lack of good quality sleep that run over fatigue that women struggle with come morning time. They are ready to just crash into bed again. And you're finding that people are consuming energy drinks in high quantities, like early in the morning. And these things have got their own ripple effect, obviously. But because women are saying that, I can't afford medication, but I'd rather buy a can of this thing every day on my way to work. But then they are harming themselves all the more. 

And then we speak about supplements. Supplements are expensive. And also because of how these hormonal changes are, sometimes you think that, I've found this that works for me. And then you try it again, it's no longer working because I always say that they are so unconfirmed. For example, I've tried whether it's black cohosh at some point and I'm like, okay, fine, I think it's working. Then at some point I'm like, okay, the hot flashes are back and then you have to try something else. And all of these things are costly.

And then a woman that does not have access to that. And then what is supposed to happen to her. And then with even traditional medicine, I always say that that's also where there is a challenge because there's so much ancient wisdom. We've seen it even during the pandemic. When it comes to what's this, I've forgotten the English name that was punted. It worked wonders.

And I mean, it's been westernised also, it's always been there. But then when it comes to our own medicines, it still does not come with the right instructions that are properly labeled. You don't really get information about side effects and all of that. So there's so much that still needs to be done. Also, even when you look in the context of our indigenous medication, that can work. There's that level of not really sometimes trusting it because of how it is packaged and how it is presented to us. 

And then there's a skepticism because maybe if the indigenous doctors were to come up with proper affordable ways, then also you'll find that people will be more prone to explore and open the door to say that maybe I can try this. 

I always make an example for things like acupuncture. Acupuncture is recommended also for treating hot flashes. Acupuncture has always been there using the porcupine stick in ancient ways. Cupping has always been there using the rhino horn. But because of how these things are presented, women are skeptical to do. But if you were to look at the cost of going for acupuncture session versus going to an indigenous medical person, you might find that it's working out cheaper, but then it's a door that is not opened yet, but hopefully with time, there'll be a way of emerging both Western and ancient medicine. 

So you find women struggling to afford any of all of these things. I once spoke to a young lady that went into premature menopause and she was saying that she was on antibiotics back to back and antibiotics are not meant to be a way of being. She used to go to the general hospital and she would explain the symptoms and that's what they would give her. And to her that was then the only lifeline. And she'll tell me that, Xoli, I know that I'm not supposed to be there, but then that's the only thing that I can, at least because also psychologically when you're taking something, you think that you are at least being proactive, you are doing something. So yeah, there's still so much that needs to be done in terms of access for women.

I love the way that you're expanding access, not just to medical care, but access also to the pieces that can create health in the body, right? Access to good food, access to supplements, access to rest even, moments of resting when you're working a low income job. There's no time to have an acupuncture session or like just roll out your shoulders and take a nap. It is really about survival. And so what can be done on a kind of legislative level to protect the most vulnerable in our kind of societies and workforce as well? 

When I think about you mentioning going into perimenopause in your mid-30s. I know that I've also been reading and hearing statistics around different ethnicities and races having different ages where they go into menopause and actually the ages that we get given as the norm probably being based on white Western women. What's your experience when you when you think about the women that you're speaking to around ages that things start?

For example, there is research that says that one in a hundred women will go into premature menopause, and that is when menopause happens before the age of 40. And based on the conversation that I've been having with women, a number of women have gone into premature menopause. They do not have the right wording for it, because yet again, menopause is so under-researched.

And if during consultations, especially when you're younger, women are not given that education or that real care when it comes to this phase of life. They just get treated and they are left to their own. For example, you had to speak about surgically induced menopause. There are women that have gone to menopause due to certain procedures because they're struggling with issues like your endometriosis, your fibroids, and they eventually opted to do like hysterotomy and all of that. And then that led them to surgically induced menopause. 

We always speak about cancers, we speak about breast cancer and all of that. And we know that normally women will at some point either go for chemo, they go for radiation. And then it leads them also to medically induced menopause or due to certain treatments that they're taking. But those numbers, they hardly get actually counted under when menopause is spoken about. 

And as we were talking about lifestyle, the changes and all of that, stress plays a huge role and it affects our reproductive system. The food that we're eating, the smoking, for example, when you go into menopause before the expected time, one of the questions when you've done the test and all of that is, do you smoke? Because smoking also leads to menopause happening before time and more and more women are smoking these days. So there is so much that is leading to women going into menopause before time. Hence, I'm saying that the figures that we quote, that we see, I always take them with a pinch of salt. I always say that reality and exposure is the biggest indicator for me in terms of what is happening out there. 

Hmm. I think one of the things that I see so often in the work that I do around burnout prevention and stress management is not realising the cognitive and emotional precursors that often happen way before our periods start changing, right? We think of menopause as this biology thing of like, my periods will start shifting and I'll get the hot flushes and that'll be over, rather than I might start feeling more anxious or I might start, you know, struggling with my sleep. And that might be the first phase. Of course, it could be many things, but that might be the first phase of my perimenopause or my kind of transition journey. And I think the expansion of seeing menopause as like a whole body, soul, brain shift. Rather than just about bleeding or not bleeding is a radical reframe.

True. Most of the women miss their transition because as you see, they are expecting the poster symptoms of menopause that we only speak about, which is why I always make it a mention that women know as many of the symptoms as possible. Yet again, when you go to research, research will say that 25% of women will breeze into menopause although they'll have minimal symptoms while 50% of women will have mild to moderate symptoms, then another 25% will really struggle with debilitating symptoms. And whenever I meet women that say, oh no, I just breezed into it. But the moment I start mentioning some of the highly spoken about symptoms, then they start connecting the dots and they're like, you know what, actually I did struggle with new and worsening allergies. Actually I did struggle with body order changes. I did become lactose intolerant.

I did this, did that. And then now it's changing what research is telling us - emotional symptoms and the psychological symptoms, I think they are the worst. And not just speaking about my experience, it's easier to put off the physical changes. You find excuses, you find ways of coexisting with them. 

But the psychological symptoms and the emotional symptoms, especially because they also end up affecting the people that you're coexisting with. If you look at say maybe it's the mood swings, the irritability, that maddening rage and all of that. It it's, those over to other people. You look at things like lack of motivation, the memory lapses, the brain fog and all of that. It will also affect how you show up obviously at work, which might at some point, if you do not know what's going on, obviously put your job on the line or your reputation on the line which is why then women need to know as many of the symptoms. 

They used to say it's 12 and then it went up to 34, then it went into the 50s. But now when you look like this morning I was printing a list again, it's over a hundred symptoms, which makes sense because I mean, women are speaking up, obviously letting their voices, their experiences. And it is good because you find women being misdiagnosed, women being put on wrong medication.

I had a friend last week call me to say that clearly I went to the doctor, my blood pressure was high. And the doctor was saying that maybe I consumed too much salt. And just like, fortunately I was with my partner and my partner reiterated that if there's one person that cooks without salt, it's this woman. He has to put salt on our food because she does not. And then he came up with another reason. And then she had her own aha moment to say that, you know, my age, definitely then perimenopause is knocking at the door. And she said that if she did not know any better, she could have just taken what the doctor is saying and then concluded that, no, it's high blood pressure, put me on medication to manage it. But then she was like, you know what, I'm gonna go look for a second opinion. I'm gonna monitor it also. I'm gonna see because chances are now that I have an idea, there are other changes, as you say, that have been happening, but that I was not paying attention to.

This has become such a common theme amongst the women that I've spoken to and the specialists on this podcast around tracking, paying attention, doing your own research, and in some cases, being willing to educate your medical practitioner or the person that's sitting across from you and asking them, could this also be perimenopause because of the limited education that's historically been given around the space of life? So I love that you're also mentioning here, like, thinking for ourselves what might be the symptoms and indicators and how lucky are we to have conversations like this and access and people like you that have been speaking about it and making it more visible that we are much more educated and equipped than I think any generation before us.

Yeah, no, it is very important because I always say medical gaslighting has been a thing yet again, especially when menopause happens when you are still younger or when you are not as confident to advocate for yourself. I always say I love stories because they paint the picture very well. There is one lady that I spoke to, she was saying to me after reading my book, she said, the first time I started struggling with heart palpitations, I thought I was having a heart attack. I rushed to the doctor, rushed to hospital, did all the tests, easy to use, everything comes out fine. And then I'm thinking like, did I imagine that? I was like, know that I experienced what I experienced. And then fast track. Then her breasts were so tender, they were so sore. Then she's thinking breast cancer, what is going on? She goes to the doctor again. Doctor, I think this is what is happening. And doctor indulges her. They do the test. They come back fine. And then she sits her down and asks her like, are you fine at home? Like, what are you struggling with? Do you need company? Because she's thinking that she's just one of those people that are just bored. So she's coming up with all of this.

I mean, in the UK, they've even coined it, whining women, when women that are at the menopausal age, whenever they come with their struggles and all the tests come out fine, they just go, my, they're just whining. They just need to go home and get over it. So it is important for women to know as much as possible so that if they feel that they are unheard or they're being gas-lit, then be not tied to your medical practitioner, go look for someone else. And also we think that, I mean, our doctors are gonna know everything, but I mean, this is so broad. Your doctor like this other lady was saying that my gynae is very good when it comes to pregnancy and all of that. But now that I'm perimenopausal, I can tell that they are not gonna be the one that is gonna walk this chapter with me.

So it's important to just have that open mind to say that, you know what, learn your doctor, understand, get some QC. Are they speaking to you as an individual or not? I always say I have the most amazing guy in me. That is why my book is dedicated to him because it will make sure that he sits and educates me as much as possible because it was also from that old school of practicing.

As much as I'm going to make an example, and I know that I talk too much, but I'm hoping that even these detours of the conversation are going to add value to someone. He asked me one time if I wanted to have children and I told him that I did not want to have children. And then he went on to educate me to say that if you had wanted to have children, probably then we were going to look at other options. And that's another thing that we do not really speak about when menopause happens, when we're still hoping to have children how then do you navigate this? What options do you have? He was saying to me, do you have a sister? I said, yes. And then he said that there could have been an option using your sister's eggs to fall pregnant. And then, mean, there are things like your IVF. There is the freezing of eggs because women are also pushing, chasing dreams, pushing goals and all of that saying that I will have children later. But nobody is telling us about the options of saying that as you're older and chasing goals, the reproductive system is doing what it's supposed to be doing. So the quality of your eggs and your chances of being able to conceive naturally is slipping away as you are getting older. So maybe then freeze your eggs so that when you are ready, then you can then use them.

We don't speak about adoption and all of that. And also just the shame that is tied to the infertility that comes again with this phase of life. Yet again, more conversations to remove the shame. To say that you are whole as a woman. Your ability to conceive naturally, does not diminish your value and your worth.

I love this phrase that you talked about of walking this chapter with you and including others in that journey and being mindful of who they might be, know, picking up cues or making new friends or searching for community who are able to be receptive of your questions and be honest in answering and be able to share and be able to consider options without shaming or judging. That can be challenging to find in our communities. And I think the online space for all that I complain about has been such a gift for so many people to be able to access different voices that they might not have around the corner or within their schools or churches or businesses. When you think about your favourite resources or pieces of research, you've mentioned your book, which I'd love to share with people so I'll put the name on the show notes below. Are there any other favourite places to go that you would recommend, maybe particularly for South African women?

For South African women, my favourite term, it's just so unfortunate that right now the website is undergoing changes. Dahlia in Stellenbosch, which was founded by Charlotte and her mom. They did a study because yet again it was a frustration of always having everybody else's research but not our own. So they did a study in 2022 going into 2023. And it was so fascinating to see and how it brought closer this experience and looking at the different ethnic groups that we have and how, whether it's how we navigate it at work, different races, how they show up at work and how they are comfortable with speaking about it. 

You'll find that, for example, a white lady will not want to speak about it based more on how she's going to be perceived because youthfulness is the prize versus like a black lady that might say that I don't want to speak about it because it might jeopardise how my capabilities are seen, like performance versus how my image is going to preserved for lack of a better word. But because you look at us also, I always used to say, when gray starts showing in the olden days, it was like, sign of wisdom and they'll be saying that, if it happens when you're younger, it means you're going to be wealthy and all of those things. 

But then when you look at how other races, they would look at like, no, signs of gray, you need to start like dying your hair so that, so it's just fascinating that even in South Africa, you can break it down to how different ethnic groups actually experience and look at menopause based on how we are.

So Dahlia.co.za? https://www.facebook.com/DaliahMenopause/ 

SAMS, which is a South African menopause society, you do find information there, but honestly for me, I find that it is not updated as much as I would love for it to be updated, because that's another thing. I mean, if this is such an important phase of women's life, then research needs to be very intentional and really be up to date and speak to what is happening. So my best is Dahlia and real lived experiences from women. 

And then when you look overseas, I've been fascinated with following the black girls menopause guide which is doing an incredible work. And with everything, obviously you're not gonna find everything that you agree with, but it's also then a challenge then to dig deeper.

Thank you so much for your time here today, for the work that you do in the world, for the stories that you've shared. It's been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate you.

Thank you. was my pleasure and I appreciate you reaching out because I always say that collectively we are capable of doing so much instead of just operating in silos. And I'm looking forward to what we can do together also.

Wonderful. Let this ripple out into the world.

Below are some of the resources we discussed:

Xoli’s Ted Talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig0xdlesyvs

Find out more about Redefining Menopause Africa

https://redefiningmenopauseafrica.com/about/

Buy Xoli’s book - https://redefiningmenopauseafrica.com/product/the-perimenopausal-globetrotter/

Black Girls Guide to Surviving Menopause https://blackgirlsguidetosurvivingmenopause.com/our-work


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Maude Burger-Smith